Switzerland’s Global Role: Insights from Bloomberg Chief Alessandro Speciale (#08)

Episode Summary: Unpacking Switzerland’s Global Impact

Alessandro Speciale is the Switzerland bureau chief for Bloomberg News. In this episode, we explore Switzerland’s role in global affairs and how Switzerland navigates neutrality in global conflicts.

Alessandro also shares his insights on how social media is changing the way people consume news, the challenges that creates for traditional news organizations, and how short news cycles impact depth and quality. Additionally, we discuss his experience covering the Vatican and how the institution has adapted to a world that is becoming increasingly secular.

Expect to learn about Switzerland’s unique geopolitical stance, the changing landscape of news media, and how the Vatican has evolved under Pope Francis. Enjoy!

About Alessandro Speciale: Reporting on Switzerland for Bloomberg

Alessandro Speciale is the Switzerland Bureau Chief for Bloomberg, bringing years of experience covering key international stories, including his time as a Vatican correspondent. With his deep understanding of Swiss economics and global relations, Alessandro provides unparalleled insights into Switzerland’s role on the world stage and its approach to navigating international challenges.

Full Transcript

Read the complete transcript of my conversation with Alessandro Speciale as we dive deep into Switzerland’s neutrality, global conflicts, and how the country balances tradition with modern economic challenges. Learn about the evolving role of journalism and its impact on shaping public opinion.

Mike: [00:00:00] Alessandro. Good morning. How are you?

Alessandro: Mike. Good morning. How are you? All good here.

Mike: I am very good. You are actually the first news journalist I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. So I wanted to ask you, what is the, what does a day in the life of a news journalist look like?

Alessandro: Sure. Um, well, the first thing about life as a journalist in a way is that there is no two days are alike.

Most cases, because in the end, your day is driven by the news agenda, and that changes every day. You try to plan. Of course, you plan a lot, and that’s especially a big part of it of my current job now, where I coordinate newsrooms in Zurich and Geneva for our coverage of Switzerland, but also when I was a bit reporter, I was in Frankfurt covering the European Central Bank and the economy.

Um, sometimes news just come out and you have to [00:01:00] react to them. But what I do usually now is I log on around 7 a. m. I see what, um, what are, what have been the news overnight. I usually have done in the evening some planning on how we’re going to cover the main stories which are in the agenda, the main events, speeches, conferences, and this kind of things.

And then basically we keep also working on our longer projects and all that. Um, so it’s a, it’s a very big. thing. But in the end, it’s the news rule us. So we have to go where the news is.

Mike: What were the early stages of your career like? So now you’re in Switzerland, you are clearly not originally from Switzerland.

What are some of the steps you’ve taken to get to where you are now?

Alessandro: Yeah, it’s been a it’s quite quite a surprising course, to be honest, not one I would have been expecting at all. So I studied literature. And in Italy, of course, because I’m Italian. [00:02:00] And I thought I would end up studying literature for the rest of my life.

That’s what I really thought when I was in university. Then in the last year of university, I, uh, discovered online, uh, Reuters, the news agencies, which is now our main competitor. And the program that they had for young professionals, where they send them around, uh, the word. And I thought, Oh, this is, this is exciting.

I mean, you, you look at how the word is ticking. You are where the news is happening. You have the feeling that you are really aware, sort of understanding the change in the word and touching firsthand how the word is changing and you are paid to travel around and to ask questions to people and be curious.

I said, what’s. What can be that? I mean, to be paid to go around the world and, uh, a license to be curious. I mean, sign me up. So after finishing university, I ditched my plans for a PhD in, uh, 18th century [00:03:00] literature and I instead, uh, got a scholarship or a master’s in London in journalism because I liked, uh, Anglo Saxon journalism.

I liked the fact that you are basically working in the. Trade language of the whole word and there I started I was in Rome first covering the Vatican as a freelance for many years, mostly the Vatican and then, uh, Bloomberg hired me to cover the European Central Bank in Frankfurt about 11 years ago, and I’ve been with them since.

Uh, quite extraordinary looking back.

Mike: Hmm. Can you describe your experience as a correspondent for the Vatican? What’s it like reporting for such a unique and I guess I would say secretive institution?

Alessandro: Sure. Sure. Um, the, yeah, I mean, the Vatican was an obvious choice. I had some contacts there because I was doing, for example, volunteering with Church [00:04:00] groups like eating meals to homeless in the train station and all that when I was in university.

So I had some basic contacts and so was my first opportunity to get some first hand journalistic experience in a small magazine. Uh, was with them and I jumped on it. So no. Plan to go and cover the Vatican. Um, then I did, uh, that masters and Then basically when I came back to italy and I was a it was a freelance, uh, so I was working for this magazine but it was a You know little paid jobs are not enough to make a living The vatican is the thing that people all over the world are always interested in when you are in rome Interest in italy interest in italian politics and stories comes and goes Uh, but interest in the vatican is always there.

So it was a I had some contacts. I had some expertise And and it was a good uh bet for a We’re a freelancer. Um, the main thing here is that, um, journalism [00:05:00] is always the same. The Vatican has a lot of tradition. It’s very idiosyncratic, like all other institutions, probably more than most other institutions.

But in the end, the basics of journalism are the same. You talk to people, you try to be trust to people, you try to be honest. At the same time, you try not to be a pushover because you have to write the story. So you cannot just sort of be fed with, uh, with the lines that they want to you, but you try to go.

A little deeper. Um, and the fact that I was Italian, but working in English and with a sort of the Anglo Saxon approach, no, no sense, Anglo Saxon approach to journalism helped me eventually become, uh, I mean, get a nice gig as a freelancer, working with, uh, In Italian and in English, more and more, uh, in English and, uh, getting to know everyone.

And I think being somewhat respected in what I was doing, but it was now 11 years ago. So it was basic journeys. Of course, it requires knowing history, knowing a bit of the [00:06:00] traditions, trying to understand what makes These people take the bishops, the cardinals, the people working in the Vatican, but that’s the same that you do in every job.

You try to understand what makes the people tick. You try to ask them the hard questions, but at the same time be respectful when you listen to their answers and try to get their point across without being a pushover.

Mike: Who’s your audience for new, when reporting on The Vatican is it typically people, religious people who are interested in the Vatican, or do you have an audience of people sort of looking for scandals or looking for something to negatively display the Vatican?

Who are you writing for?

Alessandro: So it’s um, it’s a good question. Knowing who you’re writing for is crucial for every media. And as I was a freelancer, I was writing for a lot of different media for radios for news agencies for weeklies for magazines for [00:07:00] newspapers and all that and Each of them have their different Uh audience and you have so to target the story for that audience.

For example, I was working for secular Uh, U. S. News agency, uh, that covered just religious news. So it was people who are interested in religion, but it was a non denomination. Also, it wasn’t a faith organization called Religion News Service, and for them, of course, they cared and knew about the Vatican, but they were not at all partisan, and they wanted to understand how the Vatican, how the Catholic Church was working because they were interested in it.

Mhm. Then I was also working for a news agency that was, for example, the news agency of the Catholic Church in Asia. So they had correspondents all over Asia and they had me as a freelancer in Rome to tell them what was happening in Rome, which was the sort of headquarters. And, uh, [00:08:00] and of course there I focused on news that were relevant for Catholics In Asia because I mean that’s what they were looking for and so on and so forth So the the public is always different for mainstream italian media, of course the scandal Uh were always interesting for a time.

I worked for an italian news agency covering the vatican and there they always cared about the politics and especially how the vatican was intervening or perceived to intervene in italian politics and uh And for example, I did some freelancing for Vatican radio, uh, when the Pope was traveling and they were interested about what the other Catholics are saying and how the situation of the Catholic Church in a given country that I was traveling to was.

So it was very different every time. But it’s the same for all sorts of journalism.

Mike: How has, during your time covering the Vatican, how did it change? So did the Pope change? Politics of the Vatican or the popularity of the Vatican changed during your [00:09:00] time? It seemed like a very stable institution, um, but perhaps that’s not true.

Is that, would it be the case that it is changing?

Alessandro: Well, it definitely changed when I was there because in the last year I was covering the Vatican and did that for seven years. Uh, the Pope resigned for the first time in 800 years, 1, 000 years. I don’t remember that. So there was a pretty, and I had made a very bad call, uh, to not go to the Vatican that day.

I said, I’ve been working flat out these past few weeks. Today I’m going to work from home. Um, so I had to change my plans immediately when the news came out that the Pope was resigning. And then I came back home three days after that. Um, but, but yeah, it changed because I covered mostly, uh, the German Pope, uh, Pope Ratzinger and, uh, it was a time of a lot of infighting and like, you know, when there is an old leader controlling access to that leader becomes crucial in every, in every center of power.[00:10:00]

And even more so in a somewhat old fashioned place like the Vatican. Therefore controlling who was getting access to the book was all Was all about was all the story was about and what information he got and there was a hot court around it And it got really uh dark at some point the Butler of the Pope was arrested because it was sort of, uh, grabbing, uh, confidential papers and then passing them on to the media or just storing them.

It was all unclear why he was doing that. Was it just a sort of Eddie, Eddie’s role going over his head or was someone trying to get him to? Get compromising stuff. It’s, it’s never become clear. But, uh, but the main thing is that then after that, of course, Pope Francis, the current Pope came in and he completely changed everything.

He tried to do away with all the trappings of the court and also try to change the messaging a bit, but changing the messaging a bit is a lot for a 2000 year [00:11:00] old institution. So there was Quite a lot of change because like, you know, there’s some of the rituals may remain the same, but under the skin of those, there is always, as in all things that happen on earth, a lot of things changing as, as the people change.

Mike: It sounds like the Pope has quite a lot of power to change if they need to. Is the role comparable to a different political figure, like a president, a prime minister, a queen, king, or is it really have its own? Could you compare to one of those or is it very different?

Alessandro: So it is a, it is a very, uh, peculiar institution because of course, uh, as the saying goes, the Pope is the last, uh, absolute monarch.

He can decide basically everything, uh, with the stroke of a pen. At the same time, the, um, What he rules on is a very, very tiny state with [00:12:00] no basically stable population, just about a hundred people live in the Vatican and they don’t, I mean, they live in the Vatican, but of course the Vatican is not a, is not a self sufficient state in any way or form.

At the same time, the Pope doesn’t directly rule, but it has a, but he has a lot of influence on, 1 billion, 1. 2 billion, 1. 4 billion, depending on how you count, of Catholics around the world. Of course, many of those Catholics don’t really change their behavior because the Pope tells them to, and of course, the Pope definitely doesn’t have any direct power on them, but he has a lot of influence.

He’s a very respected voice, and they And especially if they are practicing Catholics, which is a small minority of Catholics worldwide, um, they listen carefully when he says something about, what’s, for example, the, the war in Ukraine, or the attitude towards migrants. And, uh, so therefore he [00:13:00] wins a lot of influence, and he has a big power inside the tiny, the tiny Vatican, and within the Catholic Church he has a very big power.

Mike: Does he have any influence over Italian politics?

Alessandro: That’s, that’s one of the things that Pope Francis wanted to change when he arrived. Uh, given that the Vatican is in the middle of Rome, uh, it had always been, uh, had a sort of a special relationship with Italy and Italian politics. Uh, Um under the predecessor the the bishops, so the leader of the church in italy Uh, we’re definitely very close to politics and very involved uh in With politicians rather than in politics directly pope francis tried to change that but the real reason for that Of course is that italy like every other country in europe and in most of the world is becoming more and more secular Practicing catholics are a minority.

So there is No reason, and no one [00:14:00] would say that the Vatican has a special power, a special reason to intervene in internal Italian affairs. It’s a matter of conscience for those who consider themselves Catholics, but as a public actor, its role has been declined. Trying to continue to assert this role, Pope Francis, Also, on the one hand, because of the person he is, but on the other hand, because he’s aware of these secular trends in the world, said, let’s stop with that.

We focus on the spiritual side and on the messages. We don’t, we don’t try to deal so closely with politics as the church in Italy.

Mike: I always wondered, I was actually in Rome just last week and visited the Vatican for the first time and I thought about it. If the Vatican needed some, needed a financial boost, could they just sell a painting or sell a statue? Are any of the physical assets they have within the Vatican that people go and admire, [00:15:00] are they ever for sale?

Alessandro: No, no, I don’t think so. I don’t think we would ever come here. In fact, I think that the whole Art, uh, patrimony of the Vatican in the Vatican books as a value of one euro So just a nominal value for the very simple reason that Be able monetize it. The, the Vatican has three sources of money. It’s, uh, churches around the world, uh, that contribute to the Vatican, so sort of to the headquarters.

It has the Vatican Museums and it has some property around Rome that it. In a way, this is, this is a very, this is a gross amplification of a much more complex structure, but this is more or less what it is. And, uh, it has been struggling a bit to make ends meet in fact, in the past few years.

Mike: And now that you’ve reported in quite a few different countries in Europe, and I [00:16:00] guess it sounds like you’ve had connections with countries on the outside.

What is the difference in how journalism is approached? In these different places. Do you have different official or unofficial rules to follow depending on the culture of that country?

Alessandro: Well, uh, of course, uh, journalistic culture is different in every country, the way that you write the articles, the way that you look.

I work for, uh, for Bloomberg, for one of the biggest, or the biggest, uh, news agency in the world. We report mostly about economy and finance, so these are news that people Uh, that influence how people invest their money. So you feel a lot of responsibility to be accurate. So you want to be quick, but even more than that, you want to be accurate because people make or lose money on the news that you report.

So like you feel a lot of responsibility. Your news have a lot of impact [00:17:00] and But you also feel a lot of responsibility to get it right and to make all the checks to make 100 percent sure that what you’re writing is right in Italy, and especially in a threat also for broader, like, you know, sort of general public publications.

You have a less direct contact with the markets. And of course, as you know, countries in Italy, particularly a lot of the news is about politics. So it’s about what the politician is saying, what the politician is thinking, or the politician is thinking that the other politician is thinking and so on and support.

So this. Is a kind of is it a different approach to to journalism also for example newspaper journalism and italian journalism in general you Always want to to tell a story Um while for example the way I write and we write at bloomberg and but also other news agencies Like associated press and so on we always try to give the readers the news first Very [00:18:00] clearly at the very top of the story We know readers don’t have much time and you don’t want to sort of Lead them around to try and dig the news in the third column at the bottom, uh, bottom left corner of the, of the page.

You want them to tell them what matters to them immediately. First, in the first paragraph, then some more details in the second paragraph, some context in that third paragraph and so on, because they don’t have much time and you treat them like others. And, uh, This is the journalistic culture that I grew up with, even though I’m Italian.

And, uh, and this is a journalistic culture that I’m very comfortable with, most comfortable with.

Mike: So the journalistic culture then is very much derived by what the demand is of the people consuming it. And so it sounds like from what you’ve said, in Italy, they’re very interested in politics, conversations between politicians.

I can only imagine that In Switzerland, in [00:19:00] Swiss culture, it is much more focused around finance. Give me the numbers, give me that kind of the economic detail as opposed to politicians.

Alessandro: Sure. I mean, uh, we, we have an audience of mostly international finance professionals, both Swiss and expats here in Switzerland.

So of course they care about the big economic, Financial and sort of power political stories in the world. What we report here in Switzerland is also what matters to them as expats. So, for example, when there is a debate about neutrality, when there are changes, uh, Uh, to the pension system, as in the votes that happened a few months ago, when there are changes in the way that banks are supervised, we’re doing more stories about that, because these are stories that matter to the experts that live here and to the Swiss financial [00:20:00] professional or the professionals that are our clients and our readers here.

So knowing clearly who our readers are. Always helps a lot when you have, when you’re writing a story, you always have to, um, when I was studying journalism, I, I did some, um, training in a, in a radio station and, uh, the senior radio journalist who was teaching me this told me that when she was working, uh, she was younger, she had a Big sort of life size picture of people in the supermarket attached in the recording booth where she was, where she was doing a live program because the way I was always talking to the people I could meet in the street, I could meet in the supermarket and so on, and this always keeps me focused that I’m talking.

And that’s very important, knowing, having a picture of who you’re writing for would be ideal, uh, for a journalist.

Mike: In terms of the media, [00:21:00] uh, organizations or news organizations in Switzerland versus, Mm. Let’s say the US or some of the other sort of larger English speaking institutions, how does it differ?

How does it differ? Is it similar where there are sort of these huge mega corporations which produce a large amount of the general news, and then you also have much sort of smaller alternative news? Or are the institutions less big?

Alessandro: Well, um, Switzerland is a small country. I mean, nine billion people. So of course the news organizations are smaller, but Groups like, uh, or the media or the public, uh, broadcaster SRF, they are pretty big organization and very powerful and very influential organizations or.

Uh, such a small country, which is a testimony to the quality of their [00:22:00] journalism and also to how wealthy switzerland is and so it’s Punching above its weight as in all fields and also in this one nzz is one of the most respected german language publications Overall, it has a large, large network of correspondence all over the world that, uh, many newspapers in many other countries, including the U S can only dream of.

So, and they do very good work, so it is, uh, so it is small, but it is by no means, uh, sort of small in ambitions and also in its effectiveness, in its quality and in its impact. So it’s a good, it’s a good, and it’s also, it’s a stimulating place because you’re. You are competing with very good colleagues here, which is good.

Mike: Are there any other comparable? Countries or locations that you’re aware of to the U. S. in terms of how much politics or people’s [00:23:00] political views influence where they get their news from?

Alessandro: Um, I think this is a phenomenon that’s happening worldwide. I mean, especially in democracy. So where you can choose where you get your news, uh, in countries which are not democratic, you don’t.

Get much choice in, uh, but in democracies like in Italy and Germany and in Switzerland and so on Everybody’s getting news more and more from from social media And of course on social media you pre select what kind of news what kind of outlets what kind of information? What kind of spin you’re exposed to and of course, that’s a big problem for our society That’s that goes well beyond what we do day in day out.

Of course, we always try to be I mean, we always succeed, I would say, in being as non partisan as possible and to be balanced and fair and give everyone a fair hearing. But of course, not everyone reads Bloomberg because, I mean, we have a specific target. We [00:24:00] try, of course, to reach as many people as possible and people who are looking for quality journalism.

Because they want it as nonpartisan as possible. They come to us because they want the facts. And again, if you have your money on the line, you want, uh, you want your news as unbiased as possible. If you’re looking for confirmation of your own ideas, Already, which is also what, uh, people sometimes look for in the news, then it’s another story.

Mike: Where is the demand headed? Do you think in terms of how people consume their news? Because of course, social media is getting shorter and shorter. These bite sized pieces of information. But I also seem to see that the demand for longer form conversations like this on a podcast for one person speaking to another person for one, sometimes two or three hours is also growing in popularity.

And it almost seems like a counterweight to the short bite sized news on social media. Do you see a trend in any [00:25:00] particular direction?

Alessandro: Yeah, I mean, uh, I think that, I mean, if you look at a sort of the life cycle of a news, like, you know, some news breakup, things X happened, and then you get more details, and then you get the fuller write up, and then you get people weighing in and comments and analysis that at the end you get, like, you know, one big story that brings all the pieces together, the context, the news, the key voices and so on.

I think that the two Ends of this life cycle, there is still value that people wanted in the middle. It’s very commoditized. I mean, if you think. A newspaper in the old days, newspapers usually came out in the morning. No, there were also evening newspapers, but it’s not a story. Newspapers came out in the morning.

So it means that something happened today, like in mid morning, you could see it, what had happened, talk to a few people. Try to understand what was the context and so [00:26:00] on. See the consequences, and then in the evening you wrote your story that came out in the morning, and it told people what had happened, with all the necessary context and so on and details.

Maybe the story wasn’t over, but you had already a pretty good story. Pretty comprehensive story now that story that comes out in the morning now it does it is really difficult to give it value because everybody knows what the news is the moment it happens they sit on their phones and so on so if you’re first on the news there is value then everything that is in the middle.

More or less, everyone can do it, but then there is value if you come at the end of the new cycle with a big story with a big interview with the key actors or with a big story that, okay, this happened, but that’s what it means. This is the context. This is the back story. These are the key actors, and that’s where value is.

In the middle, and this is why newspapers are struggling, I think, it’s, uh, there [00:27:00] is, uh, little value. And so, people don’t tend to want to spend money for that.

Mike: I was thinking about this before our conversation, that the Donald Trump assassination was four or five weeks ago now. And that’s already seemed to have slipped off the news cycle in terms of what peop It’s It’s It’s just insane, one of the biggest, um, news events of, I don’t know, of how long.

And it’s It’s over already in terms of what I’m consuming on my news. Is the The news cycle still getting shorter and shorter? I mean, I’m also exhausted from all of the constant, um, news going on around the world. I don’t know how long I can read about the same event. But at the same time, that’s insane that something so dramatic is over so quickly.

Alessandro: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. The news cycle is no stop. It has become very short. Um, also because, I mean, I think it’s, uh, on the one hand it’s the way journalism works, but on the other hand, [00:28:00] um, The word has accelerated again. I don’t know if the start date of this acceleration was, uh, February 24, 2022, when Russia invaded Ukraine or In hindsight, the sort of the turning point will be some other one, but of course that the war is accelerated.

Like, you know, it seemed there was a global consensus more or less on the rules for agile and all that. But then first COVID came. And now the first all out war in europe in in 70 years Uh, of course conflicts in many other parts of the world great power, uh rivalry like, you know If someone thought that history had maybe not come to a standstill, but someone slowed down I think now you can see that history is keeps doing It’s history thing and keeps rolling on.

Mike: Do you think the public’s trust in journalism is dropping due [00:29:00] to the influence of the news in the US?

Alessandro: I don’t know if it’s in the U. S. What is sure is that I mean, there is less and less trust in society overall. I guess I think bad journalism is when it’s like that. It’s it’s part of that. Uh, at the same time, it’s not the only, of course, culprit of that.

But The fact that societies are becoming more and more divided. I mean, they can get you can get the news that just confirm your point of view. And this is something that doesn’t help people getting, you know, trying to look beyond their fence or their courtyard or whatever. And of course, We as journalists that try to do exactly that, we try to do exactly that, to make news that are valid for everyone because we try to be factual and non [00:30:00] biased.

Often this is, sometimes this is not what good people want for and this is a broader social problem that is one of the weaknesses of our democracies. At the same time, you can see that people always When they have a choice before being in a democracy, and that’s why there is the immigration issue, for example, in a country like this one, because this is a good place to live, and people want to come and live here, uh, even if they are always complaining that old Europe is being left behind and so on.

So. In the end, it’s, uh, our democracies have still a lot of weaknesses and, uh, journalism is probably participates in some of those weaknesses. At the same time, it’s still, still a pretty good quality of life, as for example, all indexes of qualities of life, it’s, in the end, it’s all, always European.

Mike: Is it becoming an increasing problem, do you think, for, [00:31:00] sort of, like, Good institutions like Bloomberg needing to compete with clickbait material that people get on social media that pop up all the time

Alessandro: I know I I think it was a maybe a problem a while back, but now people want Like, you know, good news in the sense of like, you know, solid, factually based, well researched, reliable and accurate news.

Now know that they have to pay for this. They pay us or they pay some of our, uh, competitors, national or international, but they know that these kind of things is not free. It’s still difficult to make, uh, sort of a reliable business model out of it because, uh, Public might attract, especially for general audience, uh, newspapers and so on.

But the risk, the value that there is in journalism, especially in a time of noise like this, when you get signal and [00:32:00] when you have any, in an organization that is dedicated to give you the signal out of the noise, factually accurate, non biased, carefully researched, it’s, uh, people know that there is, uh, extra value there.

Mike: I’d be really interested to get your opinion on how Switzerland is perceived, or how Switzerland perceives itself based on the news versus how it’s perceived in other countries.

Alessandro: Yeah, so it’s, uh, it’s very interesting and it was, it has been a very fascinating sort of path of discovery for me since I moved here, uh, a little more than a year ago.

Switzerland is a small country and, uh, it has a lot of quirky aspects, which are usually what people think about, the chocolate, the cows, the cheese, the watches and so on, but it has a lot of history and Switzerland is really at the heart of Europe. In a way, if you think about that, Switzerland is a [00:33:00] mini Europe in the heart of Europe.

That’s my sort of working description of the country right now. You have the German speaking part, the biggest one, the French speaking part, and the tiny Italian speaking part, federated together. And they sort of come together in Bern. But if you live here, you know that most Schwyzerdeutsch hardly ever go into the Swiss Romand, and so on.

So it’s, uh, And yet they have found a way to make it work, like, you know, different parts of the country, they still have a common identity, common institutions to make the whole work, and then each part goes on doing its own thing, uh, in a way that’s a decent model for how the European Union could aspire to become one day and for broader Europe, which way you have this dazzling country.

Amount of diversity, diverse cultural traditions, languages, economic, uh, and so on, histories. And yet, given that [00:34:00] this is a continent that has been at war constantly for millennia, and now since 70 years, Before Russia invaded Ukraine, there has been peace. So the European Union has managed to do this amazing thing of bringing stable peace to a country that was to a continent that was by definition, the continent of constant war.

And. In Switzerland got there first in 1848, there was 1847, there was a small civil war in Switzerland between sort of Catholics and Protestants in a way, and then it created the Federation more or less as we know it now, and it has found a way to live together in its diversity. The whole of Europe is a much bigger, much more complicated program.

I mean, Switzerland is tiny. Europe is very big, but in a way you could say that they are. Reading from the same script, taking all this diversity and struggling by [00:35:00] trial and error to create institutions that make this diversity stick together, because, of course, if not, European countries are funny when you have the US, when you have China, when you have Brazil, when you have India.

Uh, like, you know, what, what can Slovakia or Croatia or even Italy and Germany do on its own on this global stage? So you need to come together and you need to, by trying to find the institutions that make this whole work together for the team to work together and at the same time, Each one remains the same.

Italy will always be Italy. Uh, Croatia will always be Croatia and so on and so forth. I think it’s very fascinating to have this tiny microcosm that is Switzerland in the heart of Europe and it’s fascinating to see how these two things interact.

Mike: How does foreign media coverage about Switzerland differ from the way Swiss media covers Switzerland?

Alessandro: Well, of course, I mean it’s, [00:36:00] uh, Swiss media are local media. They have a local audience and they report a lot on domestic issues, which are very pressing. If you live here and be like, you know, the changes to the pension system can be the renovation work on their railways or on the motorways can be how the prices of.

Cheese or whatever produce is on, of course, the local politics, which are as intricate in business time is every country’s domestic politics. So it’s very idiosyncratic, and they have an audience for that. We as an international media and the other organization that had a sort of a full time presence here in, uh, in Switzerland.

Some of the stories are big and globally relevant. I mean, one of the world’s biggest banks is here, uh, UBS. There was the dramatic story of the merger between UBS and Credit Suisse last year. Uh, it has, uh, like, you [00:37:00] know, some stories are of global relevance. I mean, you have Nestle, you have Novartis and Roche, two of the largest, um, pharma companies in the world.

You have FIFA, you have the International Olympic Committee, you have UEFA. So like, you know, everybody cares about football and the Olympics. So, and the heart is here. You have the Swiss franc, which is one of the most important currencies in the world. And you have the Swiss franc. A lot, a lot of people trade and make and lose money on by trading the Swiss franc every day and so on.

So there is a lot of things that which are of global importance for such a small country and at the same. And of course, the way we covered this, we always look at the global implications. For example. S is based in Zurich, but it is a global bank. The way we cover it is different in a, in a way, by the way, other Swiss media cover it.

It’s because we are here in Zurich, but we also cover UBS from New York, from London, from Singapore, from Hong Kong, bringing together the fact that we are a [00:38:00] global organization. And so we can look at the whole picture of a global institution like UBS.

Mike: How significant was it when Switzerland sided with NATO when it came to the Russia Ukraine war?

Alessandro: Yeah, um, I mean, I think that the Swiss would not agree with the fact that they sided with NATO. They are just Copying the sanctions that the European Union enacts and And also this it’s like, you know, it’s an still in a somewhat case by case basis I mean, there is a broader debate here, which is very fascinating.

It’s one of the first thing that I focused on when I started here, because there is this tradition of neutrality. And of course the Swiss tradition of neutrality was this, again, it was a tiny country. In the middle of France and Germany, the two big power centers of Europe in the 19th century, that were often at war, and of course, [00:39:00] Switzerland didn’t want to be implicated in that.

And so the tradition of neutrality that dates back even further than that, but let’s focus on the most recent history. It had a reason in a European where you had to choose sides and usually, One side was France and one side was Germany, and most countries sort of constantly changed around this basic sort of conflict that was the underlying conflict between those countries.

For example, Italy changed sides several times, as we tend to do. Switzerland wanted to be out of that and said, we can defend ourselves and we are neutral. Of course, this In a moment when the whole of Europe is under attack from Russia and more generally it is in a sort of economic struggle with with china uh, and it’s it’s it’s seeing its european role in its uh, It’s an economic role [00:40:00] and technological edge being threatened by china Switzerland is a european country.

So there is all this debate about rethinking the um the neutrality I mean Switzerland is a neutral country, so it produces weapons, but if you, and it was selling, for example, a lot to Germany, because Germany wasn’t at war, and so it had good quality products that, uh, it was selling to Germany, but now Germany is under attack as a European country from Russia, it is an ally of Ukraine, and Germany wanted to send some of the Swiss armaments To help Ukraine and because of international law and swiss law, this was impossible and switzerland stopped this export and of course now germany is saying We are not buying Swiss, uh, weapons anymore because we need to use these weapons, not just to defend, I mean, for Germany to defend [00:41:00] itself, it’s to defend Ukraine, arming Ukraine is Europe defending itself.

And uh, and if Switzerland wants to remain neutral between Ukraine and Russia, it means that he wants to remain neutral. Neutral between Europe and Russia, and of course, Switzerland is a European country, so there is a contradiction here and many people in Switzerland are starting to becoming aware of this and the result is rethinking this discussion.

Of course, some people want to double down on neutrality and they want to enshrine in the constitution the neutrality and the fact that you don’t ever take sides in a conflict and you don’t ever even adopt sanctions like Switzerland is doing. Other things. Yeah, Switzerland is neutral, but Switzerland is also a Western country, a democracy, it is a legal system, and of course, when a country invades another country, we cannot remain fully neutral, because, I mean, you cannot remain neutral between the perpetrator and the victim, and that’s a very fascinating debate [00:42:00] to see how this will shape up.

Of course, per se neutrality that was Based in the idea, when you’re neutral within one continent that is at war, it’s different when you are one continent that is under attack from the outside and you’re part of that continent. Do you

Mike: think the wishes of the public in Switzerland is changing when it comes to things like neutrality, that the younger people, Wanting something different to what the country traditionally has always done.

Do you see that based on the interest in your news, that kind of thing?

Alessandro: The debate in the elite is certainly shifting, I mean, and it’s also polarizing. Some people want to double down on neutrality, some people want to update the idea of neutrality. There was this expert group to the defense ministry that proposed a new security strategy that was going exactly in this direction.

As usually in Switzerland, it’s going to be interesting [00:43:00] because at some point, It’s very likely that this thing will go to a popular vote. And then you will see what people really think. And probably also most people that don’t think about highfalutin abstract concepts, such as neutrality, they will be forced to give it some thought and then to cast a vote.

And then we’ll see whether this Shift that is going on in the elite also matters for the people, for most of the people. It’s going to be very interesting and I really look forward to covering that.

Mike: For global conflicts which aren’t directly related, directly impacting Europe, such as what’s going on in the Middle East, what does, how involved does Switzerland get besides hosting peace conferences?

Alessandro: Oh, it’s, it’s always important because we live in a global world, in a global interconnected world. So almost everything that happens anywhere in the world has some direct or indirect impact. For example, uh, when, uh, Switzerland [00:44:00] decided to enact sanctions against Russia, some of the, uh, commodity trading that had been one of the hallmarks of Switzerland moved to the Middle East.

Switzerland used to be a mediator. But now for example on everything from the conflict in ukraine to the conflict between israel and the terrorist organization hamas There the mediators are egypt or qatar Are turkey and so of course this matters and this also matters in terms of Business relations.

You cannot just say we are a swiss business that we want to do business with everyone a b b A technology giant based in Switzerland that produces complex electric systems, um, has been under a subpoena under investigation if you want from the U. S. Parliament, because some of the software it provides to the world’s largest Maker of port cranes, which is a Chinese company that is under [00:45:00] investigation.

So adb also came under investigation from the U. S. Parliament because of its involvement with his Chinese company. So you can say, Oh, we just do business with Chinese companies. It’s more complicated than that, because business and politics are always intertwined. And now it’s becoming clearer I mean, now people are coming out with the fact that they are intertwined and they are sort of embracing it and trying to direct also try to, uh, sort of accept, uh, that economy is part of the big country rivalry that is going on in the world.

Um, and of course, again, here saying you are neutral is. Easy, but it’s only the start of the story and you have to be, you have to be more nuanced and more savvy than that.

Mike: I suppose for every, every country has financial relations with Switzerland too. What role do you think Switzerland’s [00:46:00] banking and financial systems play in these global conflicts?

Alessandro: Yeah, well, I mean the the long running tradition of sort of swiss banking secrecy as we Remember it from decades past is gone because of u. s Intervention at the same time. It’s still very Easy. I mean, Switzerland, for example, doesn’t have a public record of companies and of the final beneficiaries of companies that that you can.

Now there is a discussion of creating such a register and which would then not even be public. So it’s still very different from what you have in in other countries. So in a way, it’s still It’s still a good place to bring your money, first of all, because you have first class financial services and you have a very developed banking system and you have a stable country and you have a stable currency, but also because the legislation is somewhat more helpful if you want [00:47:00] to, like, you know, not make it impossible to make it more difficult from the outside, if there is an investigation.

At the same time, Switzerland is a country in international system. It has the same anti money laundering, uh, rules that all other developed countries and is enforcing them. Forcefully, uh, just yesterday, there was the news that another, uh, private bank, uh, was fined, uh, by the, uh, financial services regulator, FEMA, for not adhering to AML, uh, regulations and Know Your Customer regulations.

So here, too, the situation is changing. And, of course, Switzerland, He’s still a very attractive destination for overseas wealth, even if he doesn’t have a binding secrecy anymore, because he can do a lot of things well. So if you think that secrecy is your only card, probably you’re not going far in today’s world, but most of Swiss, all of Swiss financial [00:48:00] services is much more savvy than that.

And they know that routing out the potentially bad customers opens the way to having. More and more good customers and there is a lot of wealth going, going on in the world for which Switzerland is still extremely attractive and Switzerland is successful in attracting that.

Mike: You said that the banking secrecy as Switzerland’s famous for no longer exists because of enforcement by the US.

What exactly happened there?

Alessandro: Yeah, that changed a few years ago. There was before my time. So I’m not 100 percent sure. I remember the details of the top of my head. But the basic story is that there was a U. S. Investigation on a Swiss bank and they were, they wanted to know who the final owners of sub bank accounts were.

And the U. S. exerted pressure through the international legal system. And eventually Switzerland had to budge. So there is no yeah. [00:49:00] Guarantee of secrecy. If you have a bank account that the bank won’t tell you that won’t tell anyone that this is your bank account. You go through procedures. There is a legal process, which is somewhat cumbersome.

But of course, there is no banking secrecy as such. And this has changed because Switzerland is connected to the global financial system. If you want, there is an interesting parallel with what happened in the Vatican, which was much smaller. But the Vatican had a small bank or to be fair, more of an asset manager called your IOR that was involved in some murky dealings in the 60s and 70s, because then again, you could have a bank account there.

And the bank account would just have a number and no other details. And if you had, uh, and if you had the credential to access this one, no one could know who this money belonged to. And there too, the Vatican though is still part of an interconnected world. So it had to dramatically overhaul it’s [00:50:00] small, but, uh, financial practices, which were still very convenient for people who.

Wanted to do murky operations because it guaranteed secrecy as well

Mike: given your focus on economic reporting. What should Switzerland be prepared for in terms of global market shifts post the US election coming up

Alessandro: Well, this is a very complicated question is, uh, as the wise people say, never make predictions, especially about the future.

Um, so, I mean, what’s going to happen in November this year is anyone’s guess on every front. Um, one thing, one general trend that is definitely going to have an impact in Switzerland is that what is generally called the rule based, uh, world order, which is basically you have different institutions around the world that set global [00:51:00] rules that everyone adheres to from trade.

There is a WTO in Geneva. To what happens in case of a pandemic, the WHO, uh, to what happens in case of conflict, you have, theoretically, the UN that’s supposed to deal with that, and so on, and support for all fields of human, uh, interaction, uh, radio, bandwidth, uh, and, and so many other things. Um, this is, of course, Under severe stress and for a small open economy like Switzerland, a global order that is ruled by rules that are accepted by everyone is very convenient at the same time.

And in Switzerland, like Europe in general has been very successful in tapping the advantages of this globalization of open markets, open movement of capital around the world in a world where this order is under severe stress and in some ways, starting to [00:52:00] break down into separate blocks. Of course, this is, uh, This reduces the business opportunity.

This is going to be a stress. I mean, to make a concrete example, if before you were making product X and you could say, I’m selling it everywhere in the world, China, the U S uh, South America, Russia, and so on. Now this is much more difficult to say the U S can say. No, I mean, if you want to sell in the U. S.,

you cannot sell to China because if the Chinese get this product, it can be a security risk for us. Um, Switzerland is a very open country to foreign direct investment. One of the biggest companies, Syngenta, is owned by a Chinese state conglomerate. Um, that was, that happened a few years ago. Now Switzerland is thinking about a low to screen foreign investments, like those that exist in every other country in [00:53:00] Europe, in the US, in Italy, in my case, and so on.

And of course, this is a big change for an open economy for Switzerland, but at the same time, you also have to be aware that if a Russian or a Chinese state conglomerate buys a company that has a critical technology, That can be a big risk for yourself and for all the country that you want to be your main allies, Europe, the US, and so on.

So you have to be prepared and have the legal tools to address these specific, uh, these risks. This is also part of the world that is changing.

Mike: I would assume the answer to my next question is no, but does Switzerland have any conflict with any other country that you’re aware of?

As in, so there’s no, there’s no one that wouldn’t do business with, with the exception of perhaps what’s going, uh, influenced by the Russia Ukraine war. There’s no one on [00:54:00] Switzerland’s blacklist. I

Alessandro: don’t know. I mean, of course, Russia, I’m sorry, Switzerland adheres to international sanctions towards many countries, uh, like, you know, countries that are under a global blacklist in a way or with whom most partners, uh, reject trade, including the European Union, uh, or simply restrict trading there also, Switzerland, the same rules, I mean, North Korea, Iran, Russia, of course, and so on.

Yeah, I mean, it is a game. I mean, Switzerland is neutral, but it’s also an actor of the international system and there are international sanctions against these countries.

Mike: How much does Switzerland need to adapt when Europe or the U. S. change their own laws?

Alessandro: Very much even if it is reluctant to admit that it is the case again because this there is this idea of Independence and neutrality and you can do your own [00:55:00] thing No matter what your neighbors do for example, switzerland is negotiating a overhaul of its bilateral relations with the eu that regulate everything from the free movement of people to Uh how switzerland isn’t connected to the european power grid Uh, and so on and this is extremely controversial because on the one hand switzerland needs trade Uh with europe, uh, switzerland, of course has a big immigration problem.

The population is growing very fast And for a tiny country I 100 percent realize it is a big issue at the same time. It’s being a global economic leader that punches way above its fate. It’s very much predicated on the fact that it can attract top talent in the global marketplace. Now I’m not going to say that by far I am a top talent at all, but I am also a part of that.

I am [00:56:00] part of a news organization and our newsroom here is extremely diverse. We have Swiss people. We have Italians like me, we have French, Canadians, uh, Brits, uh, Germans, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some of them, French, and so on. So, uh, like, South Africans, I mean, because, like, you know, it’s a good place to live, and, uh, And the people who come here do a good job and good work, and that’s also how they participate in making Switzerland one of the top economic players in the world, despite its tiny size.

Um, and that’s a, and that’s a difficult trade off that politicians have to struggle. Attracting top talent limited immigration. It’s difficult to do this thing This is the this is what politics is made of this Kind of trade offs and then making it in a making a convincing case for those trade offs to the public Um, so it’s [00:57:00] uh everything that happens in europe and in the us is a direct impact immediate on on switzerland I was once talking to a Norwegian, uh, top politician, uh, so Norway is not part of the European Union and it’s part of EFTA, this, uh, European countries, which are very closely connected to the European Union.

They basically take all the, uh, economic rules of the European Union sets. But they’re not part of it. It’s Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and Iceland, if I’m not mistaken. Uh, so it’s basically Norway, Switzerland and, uh, Norway says, yeah, we are very happy with our relationship with the European union.

We are very happy not being part of the European union, but at the same time, we are aware that we take rules because we basically accept everything that the European union does, because it’s just impossible to ignore it. [00:58:00] While not being seated at the table where these decisions are made. For Switzerland, it’s the same.

Whatever the European Union decides has a huge impact. And as not a member of the European Union, Switzerland is not at the table where these decisions are made.

Mike: Okay, my final question before we have to end. With the exception of Bloomberg. Where should people get their objective news in Switzerland?

Alessandro: Um, as we were saying before, I mean, Bloomberg first, of course, by all means, or I wouldn’t be here talking about my job, but also as we were saying that Swiss media, if you speak the local language, the local languages are high quality.

No, you can’t fight him. And I guess I’m tiger in German. Uh, the tone in French, uh, SRF, the local broadcaster in all languages, [00:59:00] including, uh, so not just German, French, Italian, but also much, uh, they do. High quality journalism. I read it every day and of course, sometimes it’s a very sweet. So like, you know, okay, I’m just an expert here.

It’s not really relevant for me, but they do a good, uh, they do a good job and SRF is also an excellent service in English. I must say.

Mike: Okay. And, um, before we finish up, was there anything else you’d like to add, Alessandro?

Alessandro: No, um, thank you for the invitation. Uh, thank you for uh, letting me talk so long about My job, uh and being the one answering questions and not asking the questions.

I’m not used to that So I guess I was long with it As I usually tell my interviewees not to be so thanks for your patience and uh, yeah Check out our news on bloomberg. com. It’s uh, i’m pretty proud of what we do.

Mike: I have enjoyed the conversation very much Thank you [01:00:00]

Alessandro: Thank you very much, Mike.